The Seattle PI Real Estate Blog has a post about apparently a common occurence in the new condo market, The Old Bait “n” Switch:
The listing agent for the project will post only one or two units, out of perhaps dozens, on the multiple listing service, each with reasonable prices–usually under $200k. If you’ve been following the market, you know that’s pretty cheap these days.
So I take a client to the project to look at those listed units, only to be told, inevitably, that they are all “sold.”
Has anyone encountered this? Who are the guilty salescenters?
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25 responses so far ↓
1 Peckhammer // Aug 3, 2006 at 3:26 pm
How about Veer: Units starting in the mid-$200s
How many are available? How many units cost more than that? How many units cost WAY more than that?
2 traver // Aug 3, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I know this building they’re talking about. The builder is from Miami or something like that. Bait and switch? I AGREE. These guys are terrible. I went there just to look around and they were telling me that the building (used to be called The Oliver) is concrete and steel! No effin’ way man!
Matt, you should go there and do a “sting” operation. Catch them in their BS!
People should trust local developers. Mosler Lofts is a local developer, as are the SLU properties (sort of, Vulcan Real Estate is run by a big wig executive from Texas). Cristalla was built by a local developer too, I think.
Down with Miami Developers!! :op
3 Matt // Aug 3, 2006 at 3:38 pm
So that would be the developer behind The Onyx/Asia/Epic…
4 . // Aug 3, 2006 at 5:44 pm
The most shady out of all the marketing companies in the city is Realogics.
They’re doing Escala and advertising it as starting under 500k. However, there are a few under 500k units and they’re all reserved to friends of the developer or Realogics.
Realogics does such projects as Escala, Lumun, Parc, 1521, Second+Pine, and Equinox.
I found this excerpt from another board about dealing with Realogics:
X = Realogics =
“May I emphasize that this pricing issue is only a problem with one of the marketing firms. Williams and Marketing company X (you know who they are) are the big 2 condo marketing firms in downtown Seattle. I am not sure how much influence they have on it, but what I have seen is that Company X condo projects offer a price range during reservations. Williams, however, offers a set pricing when you reserve. I much prefer the latter. I have actually backed out of projects with Company X because I didn’t like how they worked with me. At a VIP event for one of their projects, they announced that the pricing was not fixed because of changing project costs etc, and they would know the exact price at signing of P&S a month later. So how much do prices change in one month?? Then I asked an inexperienced Company X employee, who accidentally told me that the pricing range allows them to determine the popularity of certain units.
For example…..I reserved a unit at a project, and was in first position. They had a couple days of pre-sales events, and secured two more deposits in 2nd and 3rd positions behind me for the same unit. Can you see what I’m getting at? They created a bidding war behind our backs. So I showed up for the signing, and was told that the pricing would be set at the top of the range (50K spread). I asked why, and thats when the inexperienced sales agent told me….”Well, there are 2 other reservations behind you, so its a popular unit.” Now I don’t know if that is how they determine every units pricing, but it was enough for me to say, “Great, well go ahead and sell it to one of those two and give me my 10K back.”"
5 Ben // Aug 4, 2006 at 3:17 am
FYI - The developer of Asia/Onyx/Epic, Mastro Properties, is a local, Seattle-based developer.
6 jason // Aug 5, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Joe Gamel and his daughter, Judi (the site agent at Onyx) are both from Miami. If you research the Oliver you’ll see Joe’s name all over the purchase. They’re out of state “flippers” coming in to make a buck by doing tacky remodels and misleading people on what they’re buying - ie concrete and steel vs wood frame.
7 Ben // Aug 6, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Ok…they’re Gamel/Mastro conversions. From the Mercer Island Reporter:
“When Joel Gamel graduated from mercer Island High School in 1975, he couldn’t wait to ditch the cap and gown to take off for Florida to join his father in the prosperous South Beach condo conversion and development business. That was 30 years ago and some 40 plus condo conversion projects. Last year he decided to return to his roots and try his hand at the hot Pacific Northwest real estate market. He now makes his home on Mercer Island with his wife, Lori and their youngest daughter, 13-year- old Juliana.
When it comes to condo conversions, the Gamel name is legendary. You might not recognize it here yet, but you soon will. Partnering with local real estate developer, Mike Maestro of Maestro Properties, a recently converted condo project on Queen Anne Hill called “The Athena” sold out in six months.
Currently they have two condo conversion projects in Seattle’s Capitol Hill neighborhood: The Onyx and The Epic, located just six blocks apart on 12th Avenue at Olive and the other at Jefferson Street (across from Seattle University) respectively. A third building in the International District called “Asia” was converted by Gamel’s cousin, Sascha.”
http://www.mi-reporter.com/sited/story/html/261491
So, the Miami influence, that explains their cheezy marketing. Hmm, Mastro bought Leilani Lanes…that just ooze cheezy.
8 anon // Aug 7, 2006 at 12:06 pm
The Onyx converstion is absolutely disgusting. Incredibly tacky. I can see the Miami influence on it.
Haven’t seen the Epic, but if it’s anything like Onyx…stay far far away.
9 . // Aug 8, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Also, the Onyx is advertising the condos as being “brand new” when in fact the building is four years old.
10 lawrence hebert // Aug 28, 2006 at 3:23 pm
i am heb420@msn.com joel gamel is a thief from miami florida.. i reported him to the miami f.b.i. for developing a conversion to a condominium / hotel.. and he defrauded the new owners in an organisied scheme of fraud.. with first equitable realty inc… and the law firm of greenspoon & marder pa of ft. lauderdale fl. and g & m title company named equity land title inc.. did conspire with the diplomat golf & racquet club condominium association as president / director with lori gamel and sasha gamel and paul porzio,, and maria morales and others who became members of the board as officers and directors.. i am lawrence hebert the king heb 420@msn.com
11 lawrence hebert // Aug 28, 2006 at 5:01 pm
this is how the fraud worked ::: the developer drove his company into debt,, making bielieve he did lots of work to the old run down old hotel,,, converted it into a condominium / hotel,, his development company named FIRST EQUITABLE REALTY INC. HELD THE MORTGAGE ON THE CONDOS,, HE ALSO WAS PRESIDENT / DIRECTOR OF THE diplomat golf & racquet club condominium association along with lori gamel, sasha gamel.. he appointed paul porzio to the board of directors to carry on the fraud which was the developer passed along his debt of the development compant to the association and assigned the mortgages to home savings bank f.s.b. 1720 harrisson st hollywood fl.. now all at once little by little the DEVELOPER IS FILING LIENS / FORCLOSURES ON SOME UNIT OWNERS AND THE ASSOCIATION IS DOING THE SAME AND THE BANK IS DOING THE SAME,, AT THE SAME TIME the developer and the association who hired the operator of the hotel part of the conversion was not paying unit owners their share of their units rental income,,, as an organisied scheme of fraud.. at the same time the hotel operator is supposedly litigating or negociating a seattlement in its favor because the association and the developer did not abide by the renta agreement and was seeking $ 400,000 as a seattlement for damages… i contacted the ramada franchise system of 399 jefferson road # 21-800-221-7312 but 3 months later they do not respond to my inquire as to possible fraud…… now the association is passing special assessments to fix the damaged building and still filing liens / forclosures against unit owners ,,,,,,, AND AT THE SAME TIME THE ASSOCIATION IS FORGIVING THE DEVELOPER AND ONLY SEEKING A VERY LITTLE SEATTLEMENT IN A SMOKE SCREAN LITIGATION CASE… ANYONE INTERESTED IN MORE VISIT BY SEARCHING :: BROWARD COUNTY CLERK OF THE COURT — YOU CAN DO A CASE SEARCH ON FIRST EQUITABLE REALTY INC.. AND THE DIPLOMAT GOLF & RACQUET CLUB CONDO. ASS… TO SEE ALL THE LITIGATION.. ALSO SEARCH GAMEL, JOEL.. FOR CONTRACT INDEBTNESS CASES….. ALSO SEARCH BROWARD COUNTY RECORDS — AND SEARCH THE SAME ENTITIES… YOU’LL SEE THE FRAUD………… WANA HEAR MORE CONTACT HEB420@MSN.COM OR MAIL TO LAWRENCE HEBERT P.O. BOX 222607 HOLLYWOOD FL…………..
12 Former Baltimore Realtor // Sep 19, 2006 at 2:12 pm
I knew the Gamel’s when they converted a condo in Baltimore. Sascha Gamel was using a fake name - Sascha Michael - and was selling the commercial real estate. Talk about Sleazy! They’d all get drunk and tell everything - very stupid. Bottom line is - they’re all cheats and you can’t trust them. I’m sure they’ve done tons of illegal things all over the country selling their condo conversions. I’m surprised they’re not all in JAIL!
13 Former Baltimore Realtor // Sep 19, 2006 at 2:14 pm
If you want to investigate it yourself — look up The Belvedere. It was a former hotel converted to condos.
14 Michele // Dec 18, 2006 at 3:37 am
You need to check out Vanderbilt Properties Inc.
1818 Westlake Ave North suite 411 Seattle, WA 98109 (206)281-1111.
Christopher Ritenour claims he is Christopher Vanderbilt an heir of the famous Vanderbilt family. A simple skip trace will reveal this ridiculous lye. This man cheats people to a shocking and obvious degree. Usally people whom do not have much money to begin with. His ridiculous compulsive lying lacks polish and is quite laughable. He does manage to con people who are desparate and poor. Usually using pushy and itimadating tactics.
He makes the developers you mention look like angels.
If you want to check out a REAL scam artist call his office for an appiontment to invest in some property or a quick sale.
Did I mention, he has a felony record in Hawaii for credit card theft and fraud?
He also hires illegals that are desparate and starving and then does not pay them after months of free labor.
Christopher is a complete con artist that has cheated nearly everyone he has come across.
He has been terminated from both of the real estate companies he held his license under and now operates without a license to sell real estate.
When you go to make an appiontment Christopher will tell you how busy he is and how wealthy, throwing out tall tails of the Vanderbilt family and his success. He is, at the current moment broke. All of his shady deals in the last few months have fallen through (thanks to an informant).
This is a must check out. It is both pathetic and laughable. Except that many incent victims have lost their life savings to this rat.
Check it out for yourself. You will not beleive it. I guarantee it. He should be behind bars.
Check it out.
15 Georgina // Feb 25, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Michele, do you have any more information about chistopher ritenour/vanderbilt. It is important that I recieve this information if you do. Feel free to email me at georginamay72@hotmail.com . Thanks!
16 Lee Palmore // Mar 9, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I am new to WA. The first contract I got was -SADLY - with Vanderbilt Properties. That guy is a SERIOUS dirtbag, but NOTHING compared to his current partner - Lonnie Avery and Atlas Properties, Inc. The fiasco I am just getting out of now is incredible. I am an electrical contractor accustomed to homeowners and decent clients. These guys are a horror show! I need more ammo; send any info to palmoreelectric@yahoo.com. You may also contact me if you are honest and have an electrical question or need.
17 Another Ritenour Victim // Mar 29, 2007 at 5:43 am
Christopher Ritenour Vanderbilt - 425-780-9706 - 206-281-1111 - is a con artist that is under investigation by both the Seattle Police Department and the Department of Licensing. His “wife” Jacqueline Henry is believed to be part of the con. If you have been victimized by this man, please file a police report with the Seattle Police (or law enforcement in your jurisdiction) and if the matter involves real estate, please contact the Department of Licensing.
Threats of legal action and physical harm are part of his intimidation tactics. Do not give into them - call the police immediately and especially 911 if you have been physically threatened by him or one of his hired bullies. Get your information into a police report ASAP so that it can be linked up with other reports.
The more people that report his wrong-doings the quicker he will end up in jail.
You are not alone.
18 M.C.P. // Apr 8, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I worked for the Gamels when they own Athena Condiminiums.
I found this family to have a high rate of integrity. I was always paid on time. They treated me as if I were a member of their family (even though I was only there for four months as a temp. employee).
In the transactions I witnessed all of the legal commitments and obligations were met with each client.
Yes… They are in business to make money and I beleive they do this pretty well. Is this not the reason we get into Real Estate in the first place?
I am certainly not an exspert but I feel very sad when I see some of the horrible things people have said about this family.
I wish them the very best in all of their endevorse and hope to see them do well in the future.
This is my exsperience.
Trust me. There are many snake oil salesmen out their if are in this business long enough.
I do not beleive the Gamel’s operate in these low games.
M.
19 joel gamel // Jun 2, 2007 at 12:37 pm
M. Thankyou for your very kind words. Heb420, you sound like a very negative person. Nothing your talking about makes any sense. the F.B.I. must think you are a jerk as would anybody that reads your blog. Wasn’t that project converted in the early nineties? Get a your life together its time you start smelling the roses. As for the realtor from Baltimore, Whats your problem? The Belvedere is the cities finest historical property That was sadly in a distressed situation until we converted it to condominium residences in 1995 or near that year. Belvedere is to this day a prestigious address with world class Banquet halls, lounges, and luxury condominium residences.
20 Joe // Jun 2, 2007 at 9:46 pm
I did read that the Belvedere had some serious water, mold and sewage leakage issues that resulted in a lawsuit in 2005.
21 Jack // Jun 4, 2007 at 12:48 pm
I bought a unit at the Onyx and they (the Gamels and their company) were always up front and honest with me. They did a BEAUTIFUL job at this building. When I have guests come over they are always impressed with what was done. I would recommend the Gamel Company to ANYONE. To those who have said these negative things about this company, you must have other issues going on your not telling us. It is sad that a few pathetic people say such horrible things about good and decent ones. Get a life.
22 Bob & Sue // Jun 5, 2007 at 6:24 pm
If anyone has anything bad to say about Joey Gamel and his daughters…it’s only because they’re jealous! Not only are they talented and professional business people, they are one of the nicest families you could ever meet. They have taken the Seattle condo market by storm. Everything they have been involved with has turned to gold! Leave them alone.
23 Denver Ritenour Vanderbilt Victim // Nov 19, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Christopher Ritenour Vanderbilt - is a con artist! Everything everyone else has said about him is true! I just wish we found this web site before we went into business with him!
WE own a hotel restaurant and bar in Denver and have been coned by him and his wife ” Jacqueline Henry” He has lost our business 10,000 in 1 month and now has put the burden on us to pay vendors, and yes he has threatened us he will put his high priced lawers on us! It is all bull! If you have been victimized by this man, please file a police report with any local law enforcement!
He uses Craigslist for many of his contacts in new towns.
Get your information into a police report ASAP so that it can be linked up with other reports.
Its true!!!!!!!The more people that report his wrong-doings the quicker he will end up in jail.
Karma is a bitch!
24 Athena // Apr 10, 2008 at 1:08 am
Just be glad the Gamel daughters don’t live in your building. People at their parties vomit, urinate, and throw beer cans into Queen Anne Ave at 1am on Thursday morning - from the 5th floor.
25 the king // Aug 23, 2008 at 8:04 am
the kings new e-mail is heb420@yahoo.com
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