urbnlivn, a seattle condo & real estate blog

When will the subprime market collapse?

February 18th, 2007 · Comments · By Matt

This article is for commentor EconE, unfortunately it is for NY Times subscribers only, Will Other Mortgage Dominoes Fall? (though someone re-published it online.) It looks at the subprime and Alt-A markets.

It’s amazing how long it can take ivnestors to see that the wheels are coming off a prized investment vehicle. Denail, after all, is a powerful thing.

But when an imperiled favorite happens to be a pol of asset-backed securities – especially those involving home mortgages – denial can be be compounded by outright blindness to the real risks of that investment. That may explain why, even as everyone concedes that the subprime or low-grade mortgage market has fallen into the sea, the vast pools of mortgage-backed securities built in part on those risky mortgage loans still appear to be on solid ground.

The article also mentions a recent study on this subject written by Joshua Rosner and Joseph R Mason. If you’re interested here it is, How Resilient Are Mortgage Backed Securities to Collateralized Debt Obligation Market Disruptions?

The Seattle Times had a related but more consumer oriented syndicated article this weekend, Tighter rules expected in subprime market:

Delinquencies in the $1.3 trillion impaired-credit mortgage market hit 12.6 percent in the latest quarter, up from 11.7 percent. Delinquencies exceeded 13 percent among borrowers with subprime adjustable-rate loans.

Growing numbers of the companies that make or invest in subprime mortgages are themselves facing financial distress, and some have shut their doors or filed for bankruptcy protection.

HSBC Holdings, Europe’s largest bank and a major subprime lender in this country, shocked Wall Street recently by announcing that home-loan delinquencies have gotten so bad that it has set aside $10.6 billion to cover potential losses.

The Seattle Times had another article with some stats in it, Homeowners brace for ARMs’ new rates:

Mortgage experts estimate that approximately $1.5 trillion worth of adjustable mortgages will reset by the end of 2007. Forecasts call for $600 billion to $700 billion of those loans to be refinanced into new loans, including fixed-rate mortgages.

Last year, ARMs represented 30 percent of all mortgages, according to the national Mortgage Brokers Association. By 2008, it estimates, the number will drop to 18 percent.

So which businesses involved in mortgages are you shorting?

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Tags: NY Times

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  • EconE
    The subprime collapse is just one of many reason...and is just the beginning.

    who knows...in a few years...Matt may have actually appreciated some of the posts I have made here...or he may just be really pissed that he didn't take the time to actually read and discuss...

    Or everything will just be fine and no one should have anything to worry about.

    1420 E. Pine St...Lowered to 449k recently. (don't think I'm not watching daily)

    funny...the price was lowered? I thought it was just about the pictures.

    I guess I'm just going to sit back and watch from now on...no sense sharing useful information when it falls on deaf ears.

    being busy is not an excuse to let life pass you by.
  • Matthew
    The subprime collapse will be yet another reason why inventory is going to rise in 2007. Not only are more and more people priced out of the market, the people that shouldn't have been in the market in the first place are also now priced out.
  • EconE
    cool...wasn't sure...I sent you an email also...check your spam box because I have an @aol or an @aim address it comes up differently.

    any way to contact you offline?
  • I'm here, just busy! I haven't had time to read through the links you posted yet.
  • EconE
    mmm...looks like I'm having a one sided conversation here.

    You there Matt?

    Was there a purpose to your original post?

    For some reason I thought you might have wanted to engage in some economic discussion.

    I guess I was wrong.
  • EconE
    KABOOOM!

    This is what happened whilst you all slept tonight.

    Novastar lost 33% in overnight trading tonight.

    Japan Raised their interest rates. (It'll be interesting to see how the Fed reacts to this)

    and...here's a little tidbit of information regarding Countrywide...

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/it?s=CFC

    tell me...does it look like certain people are cashing in?

    mmmm...2:40 AM...maybe I should get some rest.

    I wonder what will happen while I'm sleeping? Maybe I will start shorting some companies soon...I've got my own personal timeline for which industries I'll target.
  • EconE
    I read this one the day it came out...but thought you would find it of interest.

    http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.a...

    It basically summes the latest SEC filings with respect to what the Gates foundation is getting out of and into investmentwise.

    Funny...it doesn't mention something Bill has been rumored to dabble in.
  • EconE
    sorry jo...Cliff notes are only for people that want to "work the system" rather than actually learn something.
  • jo
    someone have cliff notes on all that?
  • EconE
    Great essay...They should simplify it because most people would understand that less than all the freaky mortgages.

    interesting thing to point out however...this is something that made me go hmmmmm.

    from the essay Part 1A.

    A. Fundamental Changes in Origination and Servicing

    "Reductions in down-payment requirements, relaxed underwriting standards,
    the movement to automated valuation and underwriting systems, and the ability
    of lenders to move loans off of their balance sheet into the capital markets
    decoupled the traditional links between regional economics and housing market
    performance. Similarly, an industry effort to mitigate bad loans, rather than
    having them pre-pay or foreclose, has altered the historic relationship between
    default and foreclosure rates. Although these changes posed minimal increases in
    risk during a rapidly appreciating and low-interest-rate housing environment,
    their risks may materialize under an environment with stagnant valuations and
    increasing interest rates."

    then...at the end of the essay...referring back to the above...

    "The structural changes noted in Part I.A largely went unnoticed by
    MBS investors until only recently."

    WTF? Don't these guys know math...are they saying that they had never heard of a neg-am product until JUST RECENTLY. These guys invest in these things and they don't even read the label? I dunno...questionable in my opinion.

    "We explain that those changes went unnoticed
    largely because of the existing complexity and valuation difficulties underlying
    todays MBS markets."

    C'mon you guys (answering to the essay authors)...that was a great essay but really...when are you economists just going to come out and tell people what's up...real simply.

    Speculatory asset bubble that is going to pop and we...well...lots of us...are going to be F'd...even some that "think" they are secure.

    It's about time for another depression...dont you think?

    It'll be televised...and someone will make a ton of money off of it. It's just the way things work.

    Money...it's a strange and elusive thing...Economics...even moreso.

    Economically speaking...we are pretty much in uncharted waters...and not those that have nice lush tropical islands.

    I only wish I could have been at the recent G7 finance ministers meeting to see what China had to say...interesting that they were an invited guest...I'll bet Putin was pissed though...lol.

    I also noticed you are from Canada...

    What else did you expect from us greedy Americans...economic prudence and financial responsibility? HA!
  • EconE
    Oh...yeah...and what are all those people going to do when they can't refinance their ARM...can't afford the upped payments...and have to sell when there are more and more resetting every day.

    He who is the proudest...he who holds out the longest...may end up being the one that gets hurt the most.

    And...one last little bit of food for thought...if a building is full of these types of ARM investors...it may start as a nice building...but the financials will be wobbly from the getgo if it doesn't have enough owners that can afford the dues when their payments adjust up...or if it just doesn't have enough owners. I have a feeling that there are more people than we know that are holding on to an "extra" condo that is showing up as an "occupied" unit in government stats.
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