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	<title>Comments on: Seattle is too sentimental</title>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-36429</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-36429</guid>
		<description>1) Mark W - I completely agree with you. For myself, I find many of the developers have not been respecting the communities as much as they should. (the developer of the Pine Street development came out saying they wouln&#039;t allow any bars to go into the retail areas.... which was most of what it tore down)
I think you need to look at all the developments underway as a whole on capitol hill and look at what is being demolished. When taken as a whole it looks as though Capitol Hill is losing grasp of what makes it unique.
Many of the developers undergoing work on Capitol Hill do not live anywhere near Capitol Hill (Most likely living themselves in Suburbia/Medina/NYC) and I bet if they did live where they developed you would see a HUGE difference in the type of projects going up.
Also, I really hope the real estate market DOES calm down because a lot of the REALLY UGLY/POORLY DESIGNED condos going up are in response to the &quot;Hurry before the bottom drops out&quot; mentality. Rushing architects through the design process and rushing construction in general because they know if they hurry, they can get the money out of a cookie-cutter shoddy designed building. All this talk of sustainability... and the buildings being thrown-up (no pun intended) are not sustainable.

I would rather slow the process down and have QUALITY buildings than half-assed buildings that will be considered the SLUMS of Seattle in 10 years.

And Jo, in response to saying it&#039;s their own property and they can do what they want with it.... I would disagree. If it was all their choice, we wouldn&#039;t have set up regulations and a Design Review process and neighborhood review meetings.... The whole idea is that it&#039;s supposed to be a conversation between developer, city and community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Mark W &#8211; I completely agree with you. For myself, I find many of the developers have not been respecting the communities as much as they should. (the developer of the Pine Street development came out saying they wouln&#8217;t allow any bars to go into the retail areas&#8230;. which was most of what it tore down)<br />
I think you need to look at all the developments underway as a whole on capitol hill and look at what is being demolished. When taken as a whole it looks as though Capitol Hill is losing grasp of what makes it unique.<br />
Many of the developers undergoing work on Capitol Hill do not live anywhere near Capitol Hill (Most likely living themselves in Suburbia/Medina/NYC) and I bet if they did live where they developed you would see a HUGE difference in the type of projects going up.<br />
Also, I really hope the real estate market DOES calm down because a lot of the REALLY UGLY/POORLY DESIGNED condos going up are in response to the &#8220;Hurry before the bottom drops out&#8221; mentality. Rushing architects through the design process and rushing construction in general because they know if they hurry, they can get the money out of a cookie-cutter shoddy designed building. All this talk of sustainability&#8230; and the buildings being thrown-up (no pun intended) are not sustainable.</p>
<p>I would rather slow the process down and have QUALITY buildings than half-assed buildings that will be considered the SLUMS of Seattle in 10 years.</p>
<p>And Jo, in response to saying it&#8217;s their own property and they can do what they want with it&#8230;. I would disagree. If it was all their choice, we wouldn&#8217;t have set up regulations and a Design Review process and neighborhood review meetings&#8230;. The whole idea is that it&#8217;s supposed to be a conversation between developer, city and community.</p>
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		<title>By: jo</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34499</link>
		<dc:creator>jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34499</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the owners land and they can do whatever they want with it as long as it&#039;s within the law.

Yea, they do some tacky things. However, their money, their land, THEIR choice. I don&#039;t have any right to try and impose on what they should do with THEIR land.

Don&#039;t like it? Move or start buying up land yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the owners land and they can do whatever they want with it as long as it&#8217;s within the law.</p>
<p>Yea, they do some tacky things. However, their money, their land, THEIR choice. I don&#8217;t have any right to try and impose on what they should do with THEIR land.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t like it? Move or start buying up land yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34463</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34463</guid>
		<description>The MD, you have totally missed the sarcasm. What you think is ugly, others may not think so. You want to build up, others would rather build out. Density is progress? To who? Expansion can be considered progress too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MD, you have totally missed the sarcasm. What you think is ugly, others may not think so. You want to build up, others would rather build out. Density is progress? To who? Expansion can be considered progress too.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark W</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34428</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34428</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never been to the B&amp;O, and having lived in Seattle for just six years, I&#039;m probably too new to feel much nostalgia.  Before moving here, I visited Seattle several times over the years from my home in suburban Dayton, Ohio.  During those visits, I liked heading up to Capitol Hill - the openly gay neighborhood and the nightlife were a great open contrast to the much more closeted Dayton gay community.  But I also liked the fun, funky vibe of the neighborhood, the quirky retail, the odd mix of shops at the old Broadway Market, and the eclectic mix of folks on the sidewalks and in the restaurants.  Capitol Hill had a defining personality, something I suspect a lot of urban neighborhoods have.  

I moved here for good in April 2002.  After the move, the first movie I took in at the Broadway Market Landmark turned out to be the last day it was open.  It was being replaced by Golds Gym.  That mall-ette is now a QFC, and the whole north end of Broadway is unrecognizable.  A big chunk of Pine is coming down.  Thumpers.  B&amp;O.  What&#039;s next?

I was 40 when I finally moved here and am 46 now.  And I was never really funky even when I was visiting here at a much younger age.  The numbing suburbia of Dayton does that to a person, I suppose.  But even though I ended up living downtown instead of Capitol Hill, I still consider it to be my neighborhood.  I like having a neighborhood that feels the way Capitol Hill feels, a place where Wiccans, restaurants, barbers and feather boas can share a block of storefronts.

But while a lot of these places can afford the rents for the older, smaller storefronts, the street level retail options that the new buildings offer is out of the price range of most.  We end up losing what gives the neighborhood its character.  Walgreens is a fine establishment, to be sure, but having a Walgreens at Broadway and Pine just doesn&#039;t feel like Capitol Hill.

I&#039;m not some fuddy-duddy against new development.  And I certainly can see why developers want to be part of the action in neighborhoods like Eastlake or Capitol Hill.  But that doesn&#039;t have to involve wiping out the places in the neighborhood where the local community gathers, the businesses that support neighborhood events, the affordable storefronts for the niche-filling shops, community groups and theatre troupes that define Capitol Hill.

There are plenty of small apartment building sites that could easily support higher density.  New housing doesn&#039;t need to take all the most visible sites where the already establilshed community gathers. 

Capitol Hill is already a living neighborhood.  It has great access to public transportation, and some of the highest population density in the city.  Increasing density further can be done while respecting what the community already has.  We didn&#039;t need to lose a block of Pine to get more density in the neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never been to the B&amp;O, and having lived in Seattle for just six years, I&#8217;m probably too new to feel much nostalgia.  Before moving here, I visited Seattle several times over the years from my home in suburban Dayton, Ohio.  During those visits, I liked heading up to Capitol Hill &#8211; the openly gay neighborhood and the nightlife were a great open contrast to the much more closeted Dayton gay community.  But I also liked the fun, funky vibe of the neighborhood, the quirky retail, the odd mix of shops at the old Broadway Market, and the eclectic mix of folks on the sidewalks and in the restaurants.  Capitol Hill had a defining personality, something I suspect a lot of urban neighborhoods have.  </p>
<p>I moved here for good in April 2002.  After the move, the first movie I took in at the Broadway Market Landmark turned out to be the last day it was open.  It was being replaced by Golds Gym.  That mall-ette is now a QFC, and the whole north end of Broadway is unrecognizable.  A big chunk of Pine is coming down.  Thumpers.  B&amp;O.  What&#8217;s next?</p>
<p>I was 40 when I finally moved here and am 46 now.  And I was never really funky even when I was visiting here at a much younger age.  The numbing suburbia of Dayton does that to a person, I suppose.  But even though I ended up living downtown instead of Capitol Hill, I still consider it to be my neighborhood.  I like having a neighborhood that feels the way Capitol Hill feels, a place where Wiccans, restaurants, barbers and feather boas can share a block of storefronts.</p>
<p>But while a lot of these places can afford the rents for the older, smaller storefronts, the street level retail options that the new buildings offer is out of the price range of most.  We end up losing what gives the neighborhood its character.  Walgreens is a fine establishment, to be sure, but having a Walgreens at Broadway and Pine just doesn&#8217;t feel like Capitol Hill.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not some fuddy-duddy against new development.  And I certainly can see why developers want to be part of the action in neighborhoods like Eastlake or Capitol Hill.  But that doesn&#8217;t have to involve wiping out the places in the neighborhood where the local community gathers, the businesses that support neighborhood events, the affordable storefronts for the niche-filling shops, community groups and theatre troupes that define Capitol Hill.</p>
<p>There are plenty of small apartment building sites that could easily support higher density.  New housing doesn&#8217;t need to take all the most visible sites where the already establilshed community gathers. </p>
<p>Capitol Hill is already a living neighborhood.  It has great access to public transportation, and some of the highest population density in the city.  Increasing density further can be done while respecting what the community already has.  We didn&#8217;t need to lose a block of Pine to get more density in the neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: The MD</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34412</link>
		<dc:creator>The MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34412</guid>
		<description>Bob, also, just as an FYI.. The discussion involves pre-set footprint of existing structures (ugly ones for that matter).  Where did you EVER get we should create a concrete jungle?  Ummmm, this jungle is already created.  B&amp;O is not a tree, nor is it a park; therefore, it should be okay to tear it down if it is not architecturally significant.  It is an ugly, insignificant building that takes a pre-defined footprint.  Tearing it down, and creating a taller structure within that SAME FOOTPRINT is NOT increasing the footprint of the existing concrete jungle.  You&#039;ve totally missed the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, also, just as an FYI.. The discussion involves pre-set footprint of existing structures (ugly ones for that matter).  Where did you EVER get we should create a concrete jungle?  Ummmm, this jungle is already created.  B&amp;O is not a tree, nor is it a park; therefore, it should be okay to tear it down if it is not architecturally significant.  It is an ugly, insignificant building that takes a pre-defined footprint.  Tearing it down, and creating a taller structure within that SAME FOOTPRINT is NOT increasing the footprint of the existing concrete jungle.  You&#8217;ve totally missed the point.</p>
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		<title>By: The MD</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34410</link>
		<dc:creator>The MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34410</guid>
		<description>Bob, urban sprawl is what we&#039;re avoiding by ADDING condos.  Hard concept for you to get?  Let me explain it to you... Its call den-si-ty... Can you say that?  Progress IS density.  Denisty means you ARE NOT cutting down trees and paving over parks... DUH!!! BUILD UP - NOT OUT!  If you build up, you don&#039;t build outward, cutting down those trees and adding more concrete and asphalt roads.  What&#039;s your point again?  Help us all understand it, because your logic just doesn&#039;t add up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, urban sprawl is what we&#8217;re avoiding by ADDING condos.  Hard concept for you to get?  Let me explain it to you&#8230; Its call den-si-ty&#8230; Can you say that?  Progress IS density.  Denisty means you ARE NOT cutting down trees and paving over parks&#8230; DUH!!! BUILD UP &#8211; NOT OUT!  If you build up, you don&#8217;t build outward, cutting down those trees and adding more concrete and asphalt roads.  What&#8217;s your point again?  Help us all understand it, because your logic just doesn&#8217;t add up.</p>
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		<title>By: as</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34403</link>
		<dc:creator>as</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34403</guid>
		<description>what! B&amp;O is going, too? That whole area near Broadway!

Actually, I was on Boren Street near Pike the other day, there was a selective demo going on an old brick building. I said cool, this old lady is getting her groove back! But I was wrong! I drove by it today, it&#039;s entirely demolished. I will vomit if I see another efis clad, vinyl windowed, color challenged, cheap condominium!

I&#039;d say East Lake Condos have been much more attractive than Capitol Hill Area. I&#039;m just a little nervous about Equinox being out of scale! Did you see the hole in the ground??

Another gigantic hole is that project on 2nd and stewart. is that project stopped?

Also, I saw a land use proposal for a 34 story hotel and condo thing on 2nd and Virginia. I wonder who is doing that..

lots of demolition sites around the city! We&#039;re like big moles digging away the city. I hope 10 years from now we don&#039;t scratch our heads and wonder where the fuck did Seattle go? so maybe it&#039;s OK to hold on to whatever we can :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what! B&amp;O is going, too? That whole area near Broadway!</p>
<p>Actually, I was on Boren Street near Pike the other day, there was a selective demo going on an old brick building. I said cool, this old lady is getting her groove back! But I was wrong! I drove by it today, it&#8217;s entirely demolished. I will vomit if I see another efis clad, vinyl windowed, color challenged, cheap condominium!</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say East Lake Condos have been much more attractive than Capitol Hill Area. I&#8217;m just a little nervous about Equinox being out of scale! Did you see the hole in the ground??</p>
<p>Another gigantic hole is that project on 2nd and stewart. is that project stopped?</p>
<p>Also, I saw a land use proposal for a 34 story hotel and condo thing on 2nd and Virginia. I wonder who is doing that..</p>
<p>lots of demolition sites around the city! We&#8217;re like big moles digging away the city. I hope 10 years from now we don&#8217;t scratch our heads and wonder where the fuck did Seattle go? so maybe it&#8217;s OK to hold on to whatever we can :)</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34393</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34393</guid>
		<description>The MD, what&#039;s wrong with urban sprawl? It is called progress. All those trees and parks should be replaced by condos. Concrete jungle is the future. Get over it already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MD, what&#8217;s wrong with urban sprawl? It is called progress. All those trees and parks should be replaced by condos. Concrete jungle is the future. Get over it already.</p>
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		<title>By: The MD</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34384</link>
		<dc:creator>The MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34384</guid>
		<description>Easton, the kind of thinking that kills me are people who think like YOU.  Whether you like it or not, YOUR kind of thinking is the kind of thinking that has held Seattle back for years and continues to inhibit it from growing the infrastructure needed to stop urban sprawl,  create true living neighborhoods, and supply ample public transportation.  Get over it already, okay?  This place is growing and your pissing and moaning about it isn&#039;t going to make that go away.  If you want to live in a place that has &quot;character,&quot; move to Wichita Kansas.  You sound like your capacity to grasp &quot;the big picture&quot; would land you in such a place.  

Basically, you&#039;re saying you&#039;d rather create urban sprawl in the name of pleasing your friggin&#039; tastebuds with B&amp;O.  Yeah, that sounds like you really care.  Please, get real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Easton, the kind of thinking that kills me are people who think like YOU.  Whether you like it or not, YOUR kind of thinking is the kind of thinking that has held Seattle back for years and continues to inhibit it from growing the infrastructure needed to stop urban sprawl,  create true living neighborhoods, and supply ample public transportation.  Get over it already, okay?  This place is growing and your pissing and moaning about it isn&#8217;t going to make that go away.  If you want to live in a place that has &#8220;character,&#8221; move to Wichita Kansas.  You sound like your capacity to grasp &#8220;the big picture&#8221; would land you in such a place.  </p>
<p>Basically, you&#8217;re saying you&#8217;d rather create urban sprawl in the name of pleasing your friggin&#8217; tastebuds with B&amp;O.  Yeah, that sounds like you really care.  Please, get real.</p>
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		<title>By: Easton</title>
		<link>http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/comment-page-1/#comment-34359</link>
		<dc:creator>Easton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.urbnlivn.com/2008/02/24/seattle-is-too-sentimental/#comment-34359</guid>
		<description>Indeed it is the same building (aargh).  Maybe the developers would have more money if their initial design proposals were of buildings with some character the resembled the rest of the neighborhood instead of another Brix or Plaza del Sol.  You make it sound like just because the developers will develop the spot no matter what, that we should just cave to how they want to do things from the get go.  That kind of thinking just kills me</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed it is the same building (aargh).  Maybe the developers would have more money if their initial design proposals were of buildings with some character the resembled the rest of the neighborhood instead of another Brix or Plaza del Sol.  You make it sound like just because the developers will develop the spot no matter what, that we should just cave to how they want to do things from the get go.  That kind of thinking just kills me</p>
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