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Photos of Veer Lofts in South Lake Union

November 10th, 2008 · Comments · By Matt

Vulcan’s PR Firm, Fearey group, sent over a bunch more pictures of Veer Lofts for those interested. View the album.

Roof top deck:

Veer Lofts roof top deck

Den in the full loft:

Veer Lofts den

Popularity: 17% [?]

Tags: Veer Lofts

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  • Chris
    MD,

    That's a very good question. I'll have to take a closer look at the bids. I know just enough about construction to be dangerous but am mostly working the financing side...

    Matthew-

    copper is down over 50% over past two months. Here's a good link

    http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_histor...

    I'm doing work a for copper company and its hitting them for sure. Less certain of steel prices as I've been paying attention mostly to commodities prices but I'd have to imagine its coming down as well. ...well, we have deflation now so I guess most everything is coming down.
  • Ace
    I missed a flamewar?!

    I have to say I like that Veer took some risks and isn't totally bland design. The location and details aren't for me but I'm sure they will work for someone.

    To make the conversation more positive, I also agree 5th and Mad and Mosler Lofts are great looking developments. I'm struggling to come up with another good one though. Olive 8 has potential I guess. I haven't looked closely at Gallery yet.

    Count me out on lofts in redeveloped old buildings. There are just too many potential problems waiting to happen. I watched the Fenix collapse in Pioneer Square in the Nisqually quake in 2001 and I don't care to live in a building of that vintage.
  • Matthew
    Chris,

    I remember a while ago (over a year) you talking about the increased cost in building materials (particularly copper and steel) and how it contributed to the high cost of construction and high prices of units.

    What are you noticing now with demand for steel and copper plummeting and commodity prices deteriorating across the board?
  • The MD
    Chris, okay, I understand now. I didn't realize it wasn't a General Contractor switch. We've been finding a lot of GCs out there are actually looking for work and are willing to bid the jobs lower to "buy the business." I do agree with you that labor for concrete work is short supplied right now. From a materials perspective, this is where we've seen the most drastic drops, creating an overall bid that generally is much lower than the previous. You are DEFINITELY correct in your assessment that labor will begin to come down as well in the VERY NEAR future.

    As for my profession, I cannot confirm I am a lender. :-) I'm sure you can read between the lines, though...

    Also, I do want to ask if the rebids you received were based on current market rates or projected market rates for materials and labor on a sliding trend? I've seen it go both ways or sometimes a combination of the two where it's "split down the middle." Would you have this information?
  • Chris
    MD, are you a lender?...We have the same GC we've been working with rebid the subs, not a GC switch. We had time given the permitting delays - I think DPD staff are on an unofficial work slowdown mode. We had good coverage on the bids, and and prices from the subs were fairly uniform on many fronts. Labor that can do the tricky concrete work is still in short supply. As I said I think that will change.
  • The MD
    Matthew, AGREED. SLU = DEAD Of course, I never really thought the area was alive in the first place. 2200 had more condos on the market at inception than any other development (well, maybe not quite as much as Cosmopolitan) due to no restrictions on speculators and poor craftsmanship/quality. Because this was the first development to come to market in the SLU area under Vulcan, it pretty much killed the entire SLU concept from that initial offering. How's that old saying go again???? Oh yes, "Put your BEST foot forward!" Such a rarity to be had in Seattle.

    It seems that developers in this city are always "chasing the market," meaning they will never TRULY offer the best finishes, but instead they offer "like" finishes that resemble higher quality finishes, and then charge the consumer the higher-quality prices. I believe this will become a thing of the past as consumers will certainly become more savvy in a downturn market. Prices on existing downtown condos are going to HAVE to come way down, or quality/finishes are going to have to come WAY up to compensate the buyer. Simple economics dictates this concept to be true.
  • Matthew
    RE: SLU Failure

    Attempting to develop a residential/commercial area from (mostly) scratch into what could be the worst economy and largest housing/asset bubble since 1929 = failure.

    I don't see any of these SLU projects selling out and many of those coming onto the market in 2009 and after will be a total disaster.
  • Mike2
    Nice look, but I can see the need for a remodel in a few years. Industrial sheik comes and goes.
  • The MD
    Chris, that's horrible you were only able to negotiate a 5% price drop in your re-bid. That would essentially make the rebid process not worth it, almost to the point of losing money in the rebidding process (changing of contractors, stopping construction, learning curve for new contractor, etc).

    Rest assured, though, the developers we've been dealing with have been averaging 18% reduction in costs in the rebidding process over the past 5 months, with the median reduction hovering around 14%.

    Of course, ultimately the reduction that is realized is in the contractor you decide to go with, as well as the general materials being used.

    Oil price decreases have certainly brought prices down substantially, and suppliers are hurting to make the sale. So, there are several great deal in the industry to be had.... and as you pointed out, its only going to get less expensive moving forward.
  • nitsuj
    *picks up a rock and throws it at anyone!*

    OK, not really.

    "I guess I’m in the minority here who actually likes the industrial look of Veer. It’s certainly a lot better than the bland stuff at Parc, Trio, Gallery, etc, etc."

    I actually like the look as well. Personally I feel like most of what the developers have puked out in Seattle is very homogenous, boring and uninspired, this is at least a little different.
  • Chris
    Md writes," costs for build-out has dropped significantly (about 18%) over the past 5 months."


    We just re-bid our apartment project and prices came down about 5% since 6 month ago. Unfortunately, subs are still pretty busy on large projects begun before the credit crisis went full steam in September....I expect prices to fall a bit more steeply in 6 months. Subs with shorter lead times - windows, plumbing, electric, cabinets/counters - are hurting. Architects are getting really competitive for work, as are surveyors. Credit situation, with enough equity down, is not really that bad.
  • Peckhammer
    " I could see myself living here."

    So could I, if it weren't for the $600K sales price. Although it is close enough to Venik to crawl home from, there is no way I'd plunk down that kind of money on a unit in a wood-frame building.

    At the sales office they were boasting that there aren't any homeowner dues to pay until 75% of the building has been sold. Since they've only sold 58%, I guess you should take solace in the fact that the reserve fund isn't growing, and that Vulcan is footing the bill for common area utilities.
  • Mark W
    Voight-Kampff writes: "i like the look as well, but I prefer a tru loft ie: old converted building."

    Back in Dayton, the only lofts I ever saw were in the old converted buildings. So now when I see most of these new construction lofts, they just don't look right. All that drywall and the polished kitchens combined with a concrete floor and ceiling looks like a slice of suburbia tucked into a parking garage.

    The attempts to add a bit of industrial flair generally fall flat - if there's that much drywall, you really wouldn't expect to see a small segment of exposed ductwork. It looks unfinished or out of place rather than industrial.

    If they're going to put in finished walls, then finish the floor and ceiling. Embrace a finished look.

    If they're going for an industrial look, then put brick on the walls (perhaps even with a pattern of a bricked-in window). Use glass blocks. Plank-like wood. Beams or trusses. And get creative with the ductwork. Embrace an industrial look.

    But combine the cheapest wall option - drywall - with the cheapest floor and ceiling option - unfinished - and you get... well, you get many of the lofts that appear here.
  • EconE
    Condo Envy?

    You know...you're actually right. I did have a recent bout of condo envy. There happens to be a few renters in my complex getting even better deals than I am.
  • Mark W
    Chris writes "...West of Westlake (hey, that could be a good name - condo marketers…) ...."

    WeWe
  • voight-kampff
    mathew when you say SLU will be a failure, what exactly do you mean, it will become a ghetto? when will it fail?
    -btw-
    while I go to condo blogs for info, I also enjoy a good roasting, not personal attacks per-say, but if ones opinions dont hold up to scrutiny... thats more info!!!...
    In my post about EconE and christian I was kidding, maybe that wasnt obvious?
  • Matthew
    I have to say, I am one of the more cynical posters in the blogosphere, and I don't mind the look of these lofts at all. They didn't screw up the modern look nearly as bad as Lumen, and I like the wide open feel.

    I agree with Chris, they could def. use a .5 bathroom downstairs. They aren't bad, but I wouldn't pay what they are asking for them. Also I'm not sold on the SLU location either. I'm still of the belief that the SLU concept is going to be a huge failure. But time will tell.
  • The MD
    Home/Condos at margins relative to earned income and relative to the finishes = Happy bloggers..... Home/Condos at margins that make no sense whatsoever with crappy finishes = realistic and honest bloggers (or, as some would say, "cynicism."). When the developers and marketers decide to finally "get real," I truly believe much of the cynicism that is currently observed will ultimately be dissolved. This is exactly HOW the market corrects itself. Otherwise, we'd all just continue to sit back and take the b.s. that marketers and developers have fed the market for the past four years.

    Sidenote... I wonder how the price of oil having dropped to almost HALF what it has been in the recent past will affect construction prices. Well, I DO KNOW how its affected construction prices. Developers are actually re-bidding their developments for construction as they understand their costs for build-out has dropped significantly (about 18%) over the past 5 months. That being said, how is this going to affect the Seattle condo market in the future with the developments that were built at construction costs that were higher? Will these developers have to take a "loss?"
  • rick
    it's the same people posting negative stuff everytime....it's hard to even look at this site anymore. while i don't mind reading everyone's viewpoint, the cynicism is rampant.
  • I don't want to be the comment police; let's not pick on the people commenting here, instead let's be both critical yet constructive of the projects not the people.

    As for JO: I've met JO in person several times. He's a condo owner and does not work in the real estate industry unless he's changed jobs recently.
  • stone
    MD what difference does it make? Who cares. I appreciate Jo's comments, whether I agree or not. certainly helped me understand the folks on the other side of real estate table a bit better.

    Matt is not the police and Jo do elaborate - cause that is totally out of bounds. I really enjoy this site and I think it is actually good for real estate folks, because honestly a lot of folks who post on here are either owners (like matt) or potential owners (such as myself,although..). Sigh. Its been a crazy two years of being fed a lot of real estate food that I knew was bs but everyone was calling it a cherry sundae and saying it smelled sweet. I'm glad I listened to my instincts and avoided the hype. When I think of some of the marketing I've seen that is just insulting of intelligence, its mind boggling.
    I would think by reading this site marketers would be able to make improvements in their pitch, separate the good comments from the grains of salt. But honestly, having a half a million dollar price tag, crap finishes (not saying the veer does, but we've all seen ones that do) weak amenities, bad construction, and then we're supposed to just drink the kool-aid? there are some great projects that are expensive, but with everything done right, so you don't feel you're getting shafted.
    I'm not a bubbler - its just basic econ that anything that runs hot is necessarily going to run cold, its just how steep the fall is and predicting its occurrence.
  • The MD
    Jo is totally (and obviously) in the condo business at some level or another. Isn't Jo a female realtor/broker in Madison Park that works for Windermere? Or, am I mistaken? :-)
  • voight-kampff
    i like the look as well, but I prefer a tru loft ie: old converted building. I Have heard a few stories where buyers feel some workmanship was shoddy, so I hope vulcan "makes nice".

    I lurk on many a condo blog ( enthusiast? )and I always see EconE & christian whateverston bashing and inciting, yes yes I know, the sky is falling, buyers are stupid, agents are lying, blah bity blah blah . I kind of enjoy it, I always picture them as having some form of condo-envy, or maybe a napolean complex, perhaps abandonment issues ;^) if you try and deny it, it will only reinforce the image.

    I love blogs
  • Chris
    I think the building hit the aesthetic it was looking for, but since it has no industrial- buildings to play off of nearby, I think it looks a bit out of place. People are making SLU out to be an industrial area but most of that real industry was torn down years ago. West of Westlake (hey, that could be a good name - condo marketers...), all that remains is a few low-slung buildings and parking lots.
  • EconE
    OK newbuyer...my bad...I can't fault you for being an enthusiast.

    And who on earth is calling peoples employers?

    That's lame.

    We can ruffle each others feathers here (feel free to ruffle mine)...but don't f*ck with someones job.
  • Dan C.
    What are you talking about? I haven't heard anything about this. Please elaborate...cause that is weird...

    I would say that this blog is not a place for RE agents or marketers to post, that is just obnoxious.
  • jo
    Honest discussion on the quality of the building?

    What about all the personal attacks? Calling and emailing employers of people who have posted?

    There's a certain line you don't cross, and a couple of you have...repeatedly.
  • Dan C.
    jo,

    If you stick your head in the sand, all the bad stuff and news will go away...right?

    This is just honest discussion, on the quality of the building. You should provide us with a counterpoint to the price comments and quality comments above, rather than complaining. Be constructive!
  • jo
    I don't know why Matt has let this blog evolve into SeattleBubble 2.0

    No one in their right mind would advertise on the site
  • newbuyer
    ECONE, I have always enjoyed your witty comments except when they feel too personal. What does it matter what my name is? What's funny is that I was thinking of changing it recently and now I know I won't since it seems to annoy you. hee hee And I am not a condo seller. Believe me. If you really want to know, I am just a lowly teacher.

    We have lived in Belltown for the last 5 years and I know what is available for rent as condos, and apartments. It is mostly crap. I am excited about these new builidings as they offer more of a diverse inventory for people moving into the city. When I first moved to Seattle I was appalled at the diggs that were available to me and my price point. I think having more interesting living spaces downtown is definitely a plus!
  • newbuyer
    I definitely like the Vulcan projects. There are others I like, too. I think 5th and Madison is great looking but I don't like the location as much. I also like Mosler Lofts but again, the location isn't the best as it is so close to where I live right now, I know this as fact. I am not a fan of the huge tower condos with over say 4oo units -- I think those are monstrosities. So, yeah, I guess I am a fan of the Vulcan properties as they more so fit my style. At first I must say that I didn't care for 22oo Westlake, but it has grown on me a bit, too. I will not apologize for my tastes however -- as I do not expect you to either. Now, am I a fan of the high prices that especially NOW no one can afford? Of course not. I hope that things will simmer down a bit so that someday more people are able to have a nice, affordable? place to live in the city.
  • evilpenguin
    Nope, you're not alone, I absolutely love these units. A lot of places aiming for industrial either over or under shoot their goal but I think they nailed it here.

    My only complaint would be that that first floor really needs a .5 bathroom.
  • newbuyer is a real person. Trust me, I'd out any astroturfers, they're easy to spot.

    Now, what lofts do you folks actually like? I guess I'm in the minority here who actually likes the industrial look of Veer. It's certainly a lot better than the bland stuff at Parc, Trio, Gallery, etc, etc.
  • Dan C.
    christiangustafson,

    Where have you been?

    No new postings on your blog? What's up?
  • EconE
    Newbuyer...has there *ever* been a condo that you didn't like? Especially a Vulcan Project?

    And you've gone by "newbuyer" for quite some time now.

    Years in fact.

    Isn't it about time for a change?

    How about "condoseller"?
  • Clang
    These look like great rentals, reminds me of site 17 in Belltown.
  • newbuyer
    If you are referring to me as Paul Allen you are sorely mistaken. I actually do like the look of the Veer unit. Of course, we all have our own opinions. I was just adding mine. I hope my opinion will be respected just as I respect all of the others on this blog.
  • Nic
    That unit seems... unfinished. For my half a million dollars (or more for that unit) I'd expect flooring, at least... perhaps a ceiling material to cover the plumbing... too much to ask?
  • Hi, Paul Allen. Nice to see you online.
  • newbuyer
    I like the look. Especially compared to the other condos for sale. It is unique and fun. I could see myself living here.
  • Hey, my overpriced apartment is so cool, it looks like everyone else's!

    Now I rush out to a home store to try to find unique items to decorate my drab space.

    These are ugly and awful. Prison cells for terminal debtors.
  • The MD
    N A S T Y. I have nothing more to say.
  • stone
    I just got home from work and nitsuj you just made my day. I don't know if that rug is good enough to piss on though. Its great to see pictures of veer lofts because I couldn't quite picture them and I was interested for a hot second. too bad that wall is not translucent or opaque or something light grabbing/reflecting thing (there are some good weight bearing materials for that). That U cut out doesn't cut out -It looks so bleak back there: This is the sound of jack's utter disappointment in the typical black hole of a loft condo.
  • marksparky
    I'd be curious about the sound transmission thru vibration in the metal ceiling...vibrations from footsteps above you could be intensified.
  • nitsuj
    Yeah, but that rug really ties the room together dude.
  • Ew. I am really not feeling it for that weird metal roof and the drab gray concrete floor in the den.
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